Indy Undercover

I agree. I've been reading it for a couple of weeks now and found nothing to recommend it other than pointed critical reporting. There are a couple of new blogs in Indiana that bug me only because the writers seem to believe that blogging is free reign to call everyone names or rant endlessly without facts. Bloggers aren't journalists, true, but there are still some rules to be followed. My favorite these days is Advance Indiana just for the great information they keep fleshing out. There's a difference between providing inside information that fills in the the spaces in a story and blind right-wing (or left-wing) ranting.

I flagged it as objectionable content-for all the good it will do. It is hate speech disguised as politics.

I don't see any objectionable content in the actual articles - ?

I must disagree with the take that anonymous rants server little purpose; crime in the poorer parts of Indy is empirically horrible and Bart and company don't seem much interested in it. Anything that draws attention to our homicide rate sounds good to me.

The constant drumbeat from the suburbs and the ONS area (primarily white sections of town) calling for more police support is a strange way to look at the allocation of finite resources; clearly the near east side and other Dodge City-esque areas are where the cops should focus. After a Star article last year calling for more sheriff's deputies to patrol the suburbs to stem a rise in car thefts, I emailed Dennis Ryerson to explain that in looking at *violent* crime statistics, if anything, we should take cops out of the suburbs and put them in the inner city. He sent an email back (he being a decent, though apparently disconnected, fellow) that was the smtp equivalent of a deer in the headlights. Like it never occurred to him that his suburban outlook might not be a good framework to help reduce the murder rate.

I've lived in ONS, and wow, I've never seen such petty crime, so I commisserate to an extent.

I wouldn't dispute that crime is bad right now. But I think the problem is a lot more complex that the simplistic "blame the democrats" that this site does, and they're very pointed about blaming black democrats, with some comments in the actual articles that I took to be quite racist. I'll have to find the post that was homophobic, but it was beyond objectionable.

I blame the Democrats now because they're in charge, but I blamed the Republicans when they were in charge. I'm not sure what the problem is. I doubt Bart or Mitch are leading us anywhere except into debt.

Crime, like terrorism and 9/11, is not something either party has a lot to brag about but I think that's more a matter of human behavior than anything else - in that both the problems and the civil servants are too entrenched to permit change.

I don't think Bart Peterson sits around all day wondering what else he can do to drive up the homicide rate, but I do think he spends 90% of his effort on backroom deals like Veolia. I don't thing GW Bush ignores the potential for terrorism, but I think he glosses over those potentials with a dippy PR-driven approach.

Irrespective of anyone's political outlook, I think it's safe to say the Sheriff-IPD merger - if it is to decreae costs as promised - will create a lot of animosity because you only need 'so many' people in leadership roles.

While Indy Undercover can be a bit over the top from time to time, I disagree with hate speech and homophobia comments. And I'll give the guy credit, I've double checked some his allegations and he's more right than not.

Abdul, you're crazy -- his "allegations" are that the crime rate increase is all the fault of the Democrats on the city-county council. How exactly did you "double check" that? That is about a third-grade understanding of the cause of crime at best, and not something that's "checkable" at all.

And I was pointing out the racism not just in the posts, but in the comments, where people are trying to tie black Democrats to all sorts of other criminal activities.

Regarding the homophobia - I'll go back through and locate the post that commented on the Human Rights Ordinance last year and it's relationship to the police merger (they were unrelated, but IU is trying to related them), because they people commenting on that were definitely homophobic.

I'll let the crazy remark go because you don't know me very well. However, here's what I can say as someone who covers these people day in and day out. When the crime trends were going up at the start of the year and I asked them about it, no one did anything. Then the murders went through the roof and the people in charge found Jesus.

Second, the HRO vote and merger were related in the sense that there was an exchange of votes. That's how politics works. You horse trade. It's not a good or bad things, just a thing.

And as far as the racism in the post aren't the people in charge who keep getting in trouble all Black and Democrats, I didn't think you people believed in conspiracies the way my people tend to. Who knew?!

And trust me, having woked 8 years in law enforcement, I know what causes crime, it's called criminals. The trick is to create conditions so fewer criminals are created. That means jobs and jails.

Feel free to debate anytime.

I've been reading IU for several weeks now. The site is very informative. After meeting several of the faithful "posters at the site" they are... AA and White. Male and female. LEO's, firefighters and city workers mostly, with a few of us FLEOS who have joined in. Who would know more about local government, those of us who are limited to the Indpls Star and the TV stations or the folks who are out there everyday.

I just read the 'IndyScribe' article slamming IndyU as "filled with hate speech, racist content, and homophoic references".

I also read Abdul's reply. Very classy, to the point and Ms. Steph's reply to him (since it refuted her opinion) was that Abdul was "crazy". God spare me from Libs who champion diversity in thought and neighborhoods but that castigate anyone with a different opinion with as much vitriol and name-calling as a John Bircher. Way to go, Ms. Steph Minear. (insert disgusted at the hypocrisy eyeroll, NOW)

By the way, 'Braingirl'..why are you still reading Indyundercover if it has "noting to be recommended for...and nothing but ranting"?

I find your comments about IndyU quite questionable. Crime has seen a steady increase under Bart Peterson, Frank Anderson and the current City County Council. All three have failed repeatedly to address the rising crime with anything but smoke and mirrors. Indy is in desperate need of a new jail, more officers, more courts and more prosecutors. Frank, Bart and the council have instead made more committee's, more sub-committee's and more studies on why crime is up. Bottom line, they've dropped the ball and the city is suffering as a result. Bart promised more police...where are they? IPD is 200 officers short right now. The loss of those 200 officers cost the city federal funding. The council, democratically controlled, has refused to properly fund the police for several years or build another Jail. Instead they've used their resources for a new library and staduim. Frank Anderson told everyone he was against consolidation and then turned around and supported it. The staffing levels of the Sheriff's department has never been lower and at the same time Frank decides he needs $50,000 more a year? Are you really telling me there's no problems with the current leaders of our city??? Yes, they happen to democrats and are referred to as democrats. Last time I checked all politicians are referred to by their political affiliation during debates and discussions. I hate to tell you this but if the Republicans were in charge and the city was in it's current state, IndyU would be reporting that too.

As far as the racists comments are concerned, the only thing I've seen that's remotely close would be the reference to the "Ghetto Mafia" in reference to Julia Carson and some other local leaders. The term "Ghetto Mafia" comes from followers and writers of the INDIANA MINORITY REPORT and other bloggers such as PROUD BLACK WOMAN who are posting on IndyU. If you haven't, you should check the Minority Report. You might want to speak with INDIANA MINORITY REPORT if you feel what they've said on IndyU is racist.

Now, if you're upset that black leaders have been talked about a lot recently on IndyU, It's not really IndyU or their followers fault that several black leaders have been in getting into trouble lately now is it? Finally, I'd like to point out that IndyU and it's followers have been in total support of both Ike Randolph and Eric Dickerson who, the last time I checked, are black. Abdul has already done an excellent job pointing it out but Steph, you're waaaaaaaay off on this one.

Many of the comments regarding the Democats in Center Township and Marion county, who just happened to be black, are by black themselves. The "victims" of these public officials.

We are no longer going to allow rogue public officials to continue to abuse and exploit us and then play the race card when they get caught. It's like harboring your own capturer--It makes no sense.

The fact that they operate together is the reason they are "all" in trouble. If such news were "Reported" along with all the other news in the Indy Star News, "as it's happening" and like it should be, it would not be as shocking to see such news stories.

Well, think of all the things that gang has done--many are more worst than they are currently accused, that the Star News refused to report.

It's just new to you right now...we're not accustomed to seeing these folks reported negatively. Things are usually sweep under the rug for them.

If blacks make up 27% of the population shouldn't blacks be in the news at least 27% of the time. You do the math with the star news. They don't report on black news, unless it's fluff, and that's okay, but "we'll report on it" and WE WON'T allow anyone to tell us "how" to do it.

Of course if you don't want to hear the truth, please feel free to read the Star News and see how informed you'll be.

"And I was pointing out the racism not just in the posts, but in the comments, where people are trying to tie black Democrats to all sorts of other criminal activities."

If the shoe fits, wear it. When you build something, you have to follow various construction and zoning laws. A group of city VIPs, who happen to be black, did not follow the laws for 'their' new bar in the Julia Carson Center. Not only that, it sounds like they did not follow the laws to get a public hearing on approving an alcoholic beverage permit for the bar. Is this breaking the law or not?

When it comes to the peashakes (or pea shakes) houses, they are there. One of the news stations had footage of one of these elected leaders, who happens to be black, at such establishment with his government car. Of course he was there for a "car wash." I don't know about you, but I wasn't born yesterday.

Mitch has been talking about video gaming for a long time now. These are illegal gaming machines in mostly white business and organizations: VFW Hall, Joe's Bar, etc.. When this comes up, the debate is if we should legalize or not. It is left at that.
When a Marion Co. Republican said he wanted to crack down on Peashakes homes in Marion Co., he was attacked by a black Democrate and smeared as a racist. I guess pea shakes homes are part of 'black culture.' Does this same person think Mitch is racist again white people because he is attacking a part of gaming big in white culture?

Reguarding the homophobic comments. You have to know that many of the posters are cops. The vast majority may not hang out with gays, but most cops are 'live and let live' types. That does not mean they won't slam a certain political person and call them gay, queer, whatever. It is the same name calling that has been going on since the dawn of human history...don't get so bent out of shape on these comments. If the cops really had a 'fear' of gays, that means they would be treating them in a manner in which they wouldn't even show up for their calls for help. If that was really happening, we would hear about it. So far I have seen people made fun of: Size, sexual preference, dress, sex, looks, religion, etc.

Understand that the cops see a lot more of Indy than you or I ever will. They see the truth that never gets reported. There were like four or five shootings in the Wholesale District downtown (300ish Blk. S. Meridian St.) over the last two years. Most over the weekends and they got a small five second report on the news. It was not until four people were shot downtown with a running gun battle did the news finally discuss these issues. Why? Because there is pressure from the city (this would be the same, reguardless of political party) to make downtown appear so clean and safe. Why? Because there are actual homes in the ghetto that people purchased, rehabed, and are flipping for well over six-figures.

You have a mayor and sheriff who wasted no time putting together their election plans, yet when it came to consolidation...they wanted it done right now and they are just throwing things together. Why not take a full year and make another Peterson Plan for Consolidation. Consolidation will NOT save any more. Politics is still rampant. Just look at Anderson, who promised to get rid of politics. Is the same thing under Cottey, just different people.

Abdul, who were you asking about the crime rates? The mayor? The police? You're right that we need jobs and jails -- (that's not what IndyU is asking for, btw) but those are really not what the CCC or Peterson can provide. By a large measure our city economy is controlled by the State legislature, not by the city-county council or mayor, who are the ones taking a beating on IU. The State itself is in bad shape, and our city takes the brunt of that because we're the largest population center. If you're wanting jobs and jails, you should be looking at the Statehouse, not just at the 25th floor.

Sure, ask these questions, but the problem is systemic, not about a handful of black democrats on the city-county council. Crime is on the rise all over the state and all over the country. It's not nearly as simplistic as IndyUndercover is alleging in their posts.

And the fact remains that while it's fine for you to ask these questions on your radio show, it's NOT fine for law enforcement officers to air their job related grievances on a public blog. If they disagree that strongly with their employers, take it to the human resources department or choose another line of work. Any other employee that worked for any other company would be shown the door, and working for the city shouldn't be any different. If you made some of these kinds of public comments about the radio station you work for, Abdul, wouldn't you expect to get a pink slip for it?

Tell me these comments aren't racist:

"The mayor has surrounded himself with black crooks."

"Anon 735-you are probably white, he really dosent care about you, but thanks for investing in the hood."

These are not just black people criticizing the black Democrats in the comments. Many of them are white people, some of whom claim to be in law enforcement.

Sure there are pea-shake houses, and sure the black dems did a number with their new bar in the Carson goverment center. Sure, they should be punished for their unethical behavior. BUT neither of those things are related to the current homicide rate.

The homicide rate is probably on the rise due to a increase in drug activity in the city -- not that Abdul or anyone else seems to be making that connection.

But if you examine who's getting killed (strings of people that seem to have connections to one another - similar names, living on the same streets) and where they're killed (usually not in their homes, often by drive-bys and often on the street) -- you can see that it's probably some sort of large drug war going on.

WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT OUR MEDIA -- say like Abdul, maybe? Should be examining, because it informs the rest of the residents of our city about the likelihood of it affecting them personally.

What's really sad is that *I* am able to look at the data, and make some of those connections, when some of our law enforcement officers don't seem doing that. They're busy making partisan political statements and carping about their employers, while I'm actually looking at crime data and thinking about prevention plans. I have faith that most of our law enforcement are going to work and doing their jobs well on our behalf, and that the people on IndyUndercover are just a small group of troublemakers. Who should get fired.

IndyU isn't written by a LEO. Methinks Abdul knows that.

..just a small group of troublemakers. Who should get fired".

Huh..

Doesn't jive too well with something else you quoted, Steph.

"25th Annual Banned Books Week - Sept. 23-30
By Steph Mineart

Topic: Books
The American Library Association celebrates Banned Books Week on the last week of September each year, to reminds Americans not to take the precious democratic freedom of reading for granted.
Banned Books Week (BBW) celebrates the freedom to choose or the freedom to express one's opinion even if that opinion might be considered unorthodox or unpopular and stresses the importance of ensuring the availability of those unorthodox or unpopular viewpoints to all who wish to read them. After all, intellectual freedom can exist only where these two essential conditions are met."

Yet you would try and silence IndyU..and advocate that Law Enforcers who post their views...should be fired.

IndyU isnt a book..but it IS a blog that can be read. It has all sorts of those "unorthodox and unpopular opinions".

Ah well..I'm due to go to work in a bit, Steph. I'll work today, along with hundreds of thousands who will ensure that YOUR freedom to express your opinions, is not jeopardized..while knowing that you think I and my like minded posters should be fired..for Daring to enjoy the same right you so apparently and zealously delegate as to who is worthy of the right of Freedom of Expression.

Not a contradiction to be seen there, muddyboots. If they want to express their opinion, do it. No one's advocating "silencing" anyone. But do it to the human resources department, where it will actually make a difference. If they expect to do it publicly, don't expect to keep your job if you do. No one in any other job would expect to critcize their place of employment and expect to keep their job - why should you, or IndyUndercover?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insubordination

I never expressed that IndyUndercover should be shut down or stopped -- just that there's not very much of worth there between partisan diatribe and shrillness.

And expressing an opinion and libeling people are two different things. There's also a difference between expressing an opinion and making racist or homophobic comments.

"Not a contradiction to be seen there, muddyboots"

Thats all I need to see..and frankly, wasnt too surprised at your reply.

WebBlog-(n) A log on a web site, designed for sharing information and thoughts that affect the general public. However, All content must be screened by hypocritical Libs who's idea of difference of opinion is only applicable to themselves..and who justify said stance by throwing out labels like "racist" and "homophobic" when such labels arent applicable or existant.

I'm not the only one here who sees your "logic" as being seriously out of whack Steph, not to mention horribly hypocritical. I'm done playing, but will continue to check in once in a while just to LMAO :D

I don't disagree with most of even all of what IndyUndercover has to say, except for the libelous allegations and and the hate filled comments. It's really not about liberal or conservative - it's about the fact that this isn't helpful to law enforcement, to the city, to the crime rates, to us taxpayers. It's not improving things, and it's not solving problems, it's just creating morale issues and animosity, and it's diverting attention from the real reasons for the increase in crime.

..There IS one more thing in my best 'Columbo' imitation ;)
You mention having a problem with conditions of employment and taking it to human Resources/Personnel, right?

THAT criteria, yours, Steph..is EXACTLY the reason IndyU exists. H/R..is You, Steph. And me. And every other registered voter in Marion County. The same politicians you consistently see getting hammered in Indyu..are employed by the citizens of Marion County. They have been given a job to do..unfortunately a lot of them ARE corrupt and have engaged in like-behavior. Additionally, the concept of 'Leadership' is either unknown or vacant, with some of these folks..all lead by Mayor Bart Peterson (who is a white democrat, by the way-just sayin' ..you seem to be offended by the term 'black democrat'

The info you see in IndyU..yeah..a lot of it is libelous crap, so? That comes from a few fristrated guys/gals who welcome the anonymity to vent their feelings, right or wrong. I've noticed something though. IndyU has 'scooped' a few stories that have later been covered by the Star. its a good thing, too..the info he/she posts, is True, and its absence in the major local media doesnt diminish the truth.

So there you have it. Human Resources (the voting Public who elected said leadership) is reminded of the horrible and inept employees in its charge, with every post. I dont see it vanishing, nor should it. The Public has a right to know what goes on 'behind closed doors', particularly if such conduct is detrimental to the Public harm.

Now that I've satisfied your H/R criterion...still think I should be fired??

You're saying that every commanding officer, every senior member of the sheriff's department and the police department is corrupt -- that there's no internal person in a role of authority that LEOs can take grievances to and have them be heard? Right. Come on. There's an internal command structure in law enforcement agencies, just like there is in the military, and there's a code of conduct too. Not using either of them dishonors everyone who serves, and it dishonors the taxpayers, too.

I wonder what the police department would say if I called them up and asked them about that...

"You're saying that every commanding officer, every senior member of the sheriff's department and the police department is corrupt -- that there's no internal person in a role of authority that LEOs can take grievances to and have them be heard? Right? "

I think muddy answered your question, and yet you are spinning and twisting just like a caught fish. Every 'problem' you have with that blog has been answered, yet you come up with new criteria. You've been Owned here, ok? Spinning yourslef further into a hole makes you look..well..foolish, to say the least.

Steph, I'm curious how you know the racial make-up of people making comments on an on-line blog since you say that many of the people posting on Indy U are white. I've never seen you or muddyboots and I have no idea what the color of your skin is. You're not just assuming you know what color these people are, are you? You know what happens when you assume don't you?

After reviewing both your comments and IndyU's web page, I find your argument that IndyU posts "racist or homophobic comments," to be without merit. When some people hear what they don't like, they enjoy throwing out the racist or intolerant label. It's a poor argument and I for one am tired of hearing it.

Who says that Indy U isn't helping the community. IndyU blames the current powers that be for the current state of the city. They are calling for change through voter action. That takes time. The first step was taken yesterday with the FOP's vote to not endorse Frank Anderson or Melina Kennedy.

It's funny you mention low morale, as most officers and deputies don't even know what the word morale means anymore.

The anger you claim IndyU breeds is anger that has built up over the years as we've watched the city slip lower and lower. Since you mention it...what is the real cause of crime? You post, saying it's the rise in drug activity in our city. I wonder who impacts the drug trade....HHHHHMMMMM, could it be the police? Perhaps not, maybe the Governor and State legislature are responsible for that too. It's interesting when you're confronted with multiple blogs that don't support your opinions you start pushing the blame to the state.

Frank and Bart have cut staffing of their respective departments to the bone. Frank Anderson has all but completely done away with his narcotics unit. When Frank took office, there were 12 people in the unit. Since that time the number has been cut by more then half. The few remaining detectives cannot concentrate on narcotics as they are forced to work a variety of other investigations as ALL OF DETECTIVES IS UNDERSTAFFED. How can you catch a drug dealer when you're investigating a stolen vehicle, domestic violence case and vice activity all at the same time. The answer is, you can't. If the public only knew what happened to their 327-DOPE complaints at MCSD. They are assigned to the remaining detectives and then lost in the shuffle of their unbelievable case load.

At the same time Bart has decimated IPD. Both MCSD and IPD cannot take the time to go after street level drugs as they are too busy with runs. Many times officers/deputies are responding to domestics, fights, burglaries...ETC, alone. Did you know that between Emerson Ave east to Carroll Rd and Troy Avenue north to 46th street is typically staffed by 5 deputies. 5!!! That's over 30 square miles. The entire Decatur township area is patrolled by 1 deputy on 1st and 3rd shift. 1!!!

So I agree with you completely. Drugs are the reason for the increase in crime. Here's the fact you don't want to confront...Frank and Bart have been impotent in their response to a rise in drug activity which is directly related to the homicides. They have spent their terms lining their pockets.

You're right, a lot of the people on IndyU are mad and say some pretty angry comments. But when confronted with these FACTS, I'm dumbfounded that YOU aren't this mad!!!

Isn't just even remotely possible that your beloved city/county leadership has dropped the ball?

Finally what do you care if someone speaks ill their respective employers. Who are you to warn that they could lose their jobs and then provide a definition of insubordination? I seriously doubt you would be warning people about the loss of their jobs if someone was complaining about their bosses at Taco Bell or Kmart. Your comments make your feelings clear...you just can't stomach someone pointing fingers at the mayor, council and sheriff for their utter failure in leading this city.

Quotes, directly from the comments of IndyUndercover:

"Can't say i'm all that upset... what's the difference between him and the other dirty butts we arrest?"

"Boy" to "Baker"...that's what happens when racists make decisions.

Racism is once again kept alive...Minorities love racism...they want it to stay alive...If it was dead they wouldn't have a cruch to get promotions over more qualified non-minorities and certain benefits...My Sarcastic Remark: "Uh Oh I'm being treated with respect like everyone else..."If I don't call out suspect racism I may lose my special benefits" Hey they keep calling me BOY I smell a promotion coming somewhere......Funny how the same people keep pointing out racism when they are the real racists..."

"CON"gresswoman Julia Carson's office

Hey Julia...everyone knows u do your best work under the influence of alcohol

"Indyu, I wish you would do some looking into another "rat" infested Police Dept here in Indy, its on the west side, ok lets say its right in the middle of Speedway In."

The IPD Command staff are completely impotent when it comes to actually "running" the department. They have no idea about the specifics in regards to our future existence, and they're all afraid to even take a simple crap, so to speak, for fear of losing their prized positions at the master's table. God forbid they would actually stand up, address issues of vital concern to us all (i.e. a contract and the goat rope consolidation process) and speak their minds in an honest fashion. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm slipping off into fantasyland-that would actually require intestinal fortitude, leadership, and courage. How foolish of me.

Well its about time someone brought up the Rat Infested Police Dept otherwise known as Speedway PD. They have truely got morale problems, but of course that starts with their leadership.. oh crap did I really say that, they have no leadership, they have a DICK-TA-TOR ship!! Jeff Dine is an idiot and then has an even bigger idiot as his Captain aka (former wanted person) for child support no less!! and these two are the setting example men for that department!! Lord!! Some one should really take a hard hard look at this little department, look into what happen to that so called warrant, trust me there are many many ghost in those two's closets! And it really has nothing to do with Dennis Anderson at all!! Its all Jeff Dine and Alan Jones..

Steph says, "it's NOT fine for law enforcement officers to air their job related grievances on a public blog."

- How do you know this is actually a LEO? Can you prove this? This would hurt the basis of much of your argument if you cannot. Thank you.

Steph says, "These are not just black people criticizing the black Democrats in the comments. Many of them are white people, some of whom claim to be in law enforcement."

- Again, how do you know this? Can you tell the color of the person typing on the other end of the PC through what the letters look like? I do not understand your basis here. We'll need proof if you're going to base your argument off of this. Thank you.

Your arguments are weak and without merit, Steph. How old are you, anyway..seriously? You are acting like a petulant child, and its funny in a sad way.

You took the time to post negative, angry comments which you have been told were of that negative nature. So? Unless you've lived a candidate for sainthood life, who are you..or anyone to be righteous about those emotions?

It doesnt take away the fact that the info transmitted via the blog is sucessful in pointing out information I as a voter would like to consider, come election time. I dont give a damn if the politician is black, white, dem, or rep, either..but YOU need to stop the labeling of 'black democrats' as being somehow racist.

Most of the negitive response about AA's are coming from other AA's. That is not racists but may be factual. The comments of LEO's is a venting of frustration that is affecting them daily. What better place to vent then a blog with others who can understand. You are grasping at straws on this blog Steph. The LEOs need INDYU and you should reconsider your conclusion. If the City Government was doing a good job and the right things, we would not be hearing all of this controversy.

"You're saying that every commanding officer, every senior member of the sheriff's department and the police department is corrupt -- that there's no internal person in a role of authority that LEOs can take grievances to and have them be heard? Right. Come on. There's an internal command structure in law enforcement agencies, just like there is in the military, and there's a code of conduct too. Not using either of them dishonors everyone who serves, and it dishonors the taxpayers, too" (Quote from Ms. MINEAR)

If you bother to read the blog for any length of time, you'll see that the commanding officers of the PD arent named by name..but the Sheriff? He is an elected official. He isnt a good one, either: flip-flopping on his integrity, accepting a 50K bribe, then returning it..begrudgingly, after being caught, and running for office on a career that had far more administration experience than actual Law enforcement experience. But the majority of Marion County bought his line...I did..not again.

As I said before, its..odd..that you champion freedom of expression, but would fire those who attempt to do what you yourself advocate. It's also..odd..that when pointed out to you that 'Human Resources' is in fact, the general voting public, that you then turn to an area (commanding officers, senior PD officials) that really isnt a 'hot topic'. Those senior officials are appointed by Elected officials, and are as such 'temps'..and dont cause as many problems as the elected officials..unless said elected official, such as Mayor Bart, attempts to misuse them. THEN..then..they are fair game for public disclosure.

I'm sorry you cannot understand that. I dont know what the phrase 'You've been Owned' means..unless it means that your..logic, if you will..has been refuted.

Where you at Steph? Stay up too late last night posting on IndyU "Anonymously?"

Never posted a single message on IndyUndercover, and I've never posted any anonymous message on any site, ever. I always sign my name.

I made my points here and didn't feel there was anything left to say. My opinions are still the same as the ones I expressed in the main post, and nothing in any of these comments has been successful in changing my mind.